It immediately caused a sensation. The tableau is only visible through two tiny peep holes which presents a mysterious scene whose meaning remains elusive. In the foreground against the painted sylvan landscape is a naked female (comprised of parchment, hair, glass, paint, cloths-pegs, and lights). Her head is hidden, all that is visible above the torso is strands of blonde hair. The posture of the body is extremely disturbing, the immediate impression is of violence against the supine figure. The model for most of the figure was Duchamp’s lover from 1946 to 1951, the Brazilian sculptor Maria Martins. After meeting Martins Duchamp increasingly introduced the erotic into his previously cerebral art and he would obsessively draw her voluptuous figure. Duchamp’s second wife Alexina (Teeny) was the model for the arm. Duchamp consulted extensively with both women during the artistic process.
A work as opaque as Etant Donnes invites all manner of interpretations. For me several features are highly suggestive of alchemy and Hermeticism. The oil lamp could be alluding to the alchemical fire that accelerates the process of perfection in the Great Work. The headless women was a frequent symbol of Mother Nature in early cultures and her position could be taken as someone ready for either childbirth or sexual intercourse. If this is the case then the spring would refer to the womb where new life is formed and nourished. Is Etant Donnes an alchemical allegory on artistic creation?
I hardly know how to respond. You can guess what I think of headless objectified bodies made of multiple lovers, but the project is bigger and more interesting than this.
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Sorry did I offend? I was going to mention Duchamps art (he wasn’t profilic) in reverse order because, well, chronology can mislead.
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You never offend, promise. Always assume I’m loving what you’re teaching!
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Well it is a disturbing piece and I can see how it can be considered offensive, that is why I gave my version, that doesn’t mean that I am right of course.
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I don’t believe in censorship, and not much offends me. Knowing what the artist had in mind is always helpful context.
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This is a very disturbing picture , on first impression you are shocked by the position of the woman yes it could be a woman that has been murdered and left exposed to shock the finder, your interpretation has made me go back to the picture time and time again.
I am still debating what does this mean?
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It is disturbing, the contrast between the posture and the fairytale landscape causes a double take, Duchamp was opposed to what he called retinal art (art pleasing to the eye alone) and championed cerebral art. He is probably the single most influential artist of the 20th century, not necessary a good thing.
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Creepy and mysterious — yet somehow riveting. Had to look at the image several times.
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It is creepy and disturbing, I could be way off base with my taken, but its my site so there you have it. Thanks as always for the support
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You’re more than welcome.
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Well it is appriecated…i hope the book is going well. I intend to read it on my days off
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Never expected that much. It’s enough that you’re a good bud. Hope life’s treating you OK
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I see you posted this. 🙂 Actually I think it’s cited in the book Revenge of the Black Dahlia, or maybe it was some other book, expressing Duchamp and the Surrealist’s misogyny. Most disturbing is the ritualistic posed nature of the corpse.
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I did have reservations regarding posting as it troublesome but it fits in nicely with my esoteric interest in surrealism
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Don’t worry about it. I’m not really saying this to be PC. Rather, there were questions about an acquaintance/friend of Duchamps being possibly the murderer of the Black Dahlia and that he sliced up and positioned the body in an artistic way to compete with Duchamps and other surrealists.
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It is troubling however I don’t think that blame the artist for what psychopaths take out of them…the book of revelations has been the source for several serial killets
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maybe. but sometimes I think there is culpability. Eg Bundy was inspired by the early pulp mags (True Detective) and the stuff in them is really sick, it’s all rape, gag, bind, torture, real BTK stuff.
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True you have a point there is some seriously sick and twisted stuff produced over the ages. I will take back my earlier statement to a certain extent
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It’s relative. It no doubt depends on the individual but some of it no doubt inspires. I’m sure the Columbine HS killers also got inspired by various stuff. Even Leopold and Loeb probably. Weird fantasies that grew in their imaginations that they eventually would act out.
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But can you blame Nietzsche for the way the nazis misinterpreted his work? Or Marx for Stalin?
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I don’t think you can make that comparison. The true crime mags are real BTK. The ideas from Nietzsche as used by the Nazis are on a more abstract level. IDK enough specifically about the Nietzsche question. Stalin didn’t have to look to Marx for murderous acts, he had Lenin who was murderous already.
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Well Nietzsche was no anti-Semite in fact he fall out with Wagner over this very matter. But his sister married one. A copy of Thus Spake Zarathusa was given to every German soldier during WWII
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There was a murder not far from where where I lived, in NYC, the victim was murdered in the woods and then ritually posed and all of these flowers were placed around her by the killer.
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Hmm, I don’t know about this. Twenty years he spent on it? Wow. I would say she’s supposed to be dead but she’s holding a lantern. Unless it’s a corpse that’s been posed and made to hold it. Then that seems weird…why a light. Maybe for someone to find the body. The sticks she’s laying on don’t seem comfortable so that makes me think she didn’t lay there voluntarily, and then we’re back to murder…regardless it’s very interesting. For the scene, the body has too much light on it- too much glare that washes out any detail. I wonder if that means anything or he just didn’t want to make pubic hair. 🙂
Thanks for the link!
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It is a very mysterious installion
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I don’t know why I don’t find this disturbing. I did not immediately assume death because of her holding the lamp. I also did not immediately assume that she was headless, just that it was out of sight. Can you elaborate on the peepholes? Did you actually have to get up close and peer through to see or are you saying that was the effect he created?
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You have to stare through the peep-holes. Some comments I received and also some feminist commentary on the tableau suggest that it is a dead body due to the positioning and the posture and that the head is unseen. Duchamp and Man Ray scatters allusions to the esoteric throughout their careers and I think that the allusions to alchemy are deliberate.
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Hmmm… I guess. But holding the lantern. I can definitely see how you’d reach those conclusions about alchemy. However, that kind of goes against the dead body argument. Unless of course, its the whole “circle of life” idea. The body decomposes, fertilizes the flowers and the grasses, degeneration then regeneration…
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Putrefaction is an important stage in the great work, the process of perfection cannot be reach without this stage. Why did I not learn about some important in life instead of useless knowledge.
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Not useless. It reminds me of Madame de Verquin’s speech in Florville and Courval (aren’t you proud of me, professor?) about her returning to fertilize her beloved jasmine flowers.
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I am…and how is the cake art history going…am I keeping up the standard
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Absolutely. Loving it
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Thank you… I thought I would post about art because lately it has been mainly poems and stories… like to mix it up
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It’s a great combination. Variety but with strong connections. Your blog really is excellent
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Ah thank you Meg that means a lot to me. Yours too, right I will probably post the edited Proof tomorrow at around 7pm my time. Then to work on Dissolved.
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You are most welcome. And thank you too!
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Does this post not deserve a like?
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There, fixed it. Take it as a compliment that I was so interested in the post that I forgot to like it and launched right into commenting about it. And while we’re at it, did you not like Galway Girl?
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Oh sorry of course I did
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Also is there significance to the shaved/hairless genitalia? It wouldn’t have been common… Some reference to prepubescence? Innocence lost?
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His girlfriend was Brazilian, plus if you look at some of the Germaine Krull photos and pictures of Assia the same could be seen.
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Ok, then no particular significance…
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It could be significant, I am really not sure, again it is just another of those things that the avant garde were doing a long time before anyone else
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Assia-Emmanuel Sougez 1936Assia features in several of Germaine Krull’s work of the 1930’s. She was also the muse of several other photographer’s …
Dreams of Desire 19 (Assia)
dora maar,emmanuel sougez,assia granatouroff,roger schall,WWII,models,charles despiau,germaine krull,nude,french resistance,andre derain,modernism,marseilles
https://cakeordeathsite.wordpress.com/2016/08/10/dreams-of-desire-19/
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Aha! yes, I remember this one. Great ribcage on Assia.
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Yes indeed
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hmmm. There must be something wrong with me. I think this picture is rather hot. Not disturbing. She is obviously not dead…she is grasping and holding onto a light…which is still upright. This lantern may or may not mean “I’m ready to go again”. It is interesting that we are looking out as if we were in complete darkness…and she is the one holding the light. I love this picture. Yet another one today…that reminds me of the post I wrote. I can imagine those twigs being pine needles…hmm. Great work as usual… 🙂 Thanks cake.
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That is the great thing about art, there are as many interpretations as they are viewers. The surrealists have been given a hard time about the male gaze, objectification, treating the woman as the other, etc. I do see some validity but I think it is a little harsh and doesn’t give credit to the women surrealists and comes from the viewpoint that all male surrealists were
Automatically misogynistic. They liked to shock and so shocking material and themes were used. The piece is opaque and has many possible interpretations. Thanks for the support and comments
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Mr. Cake, a wonderful post on Marcel Duchamp, and his work, “Etant Donnes: 1 La Chute D’Eau 2 Le Gaz D’Eclairage”. Yes, I agree with your comment above, that he “opposed… retinal art…and championed cerebral art”, thank god. I find the interesting thing, was his ability to control how the installation was viewed, I believe objectifying the visual, yet the cognitive experience was completely subjective. Quite the emotional if not disturbing experience. Again a lovely post. ~ Miss Cranes
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Thank you, it has provoked a lot of comment, I suppose it could be read so many ways. I should do a book in the influence of the esoteric on the surrealists and modern art. Thank you again I thought you would like it.
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A lot of conversation is great, the work definitely is a conversation piece. I do like it, not sure if it’s purely for the shock value, or the sheer uniqueness of the piece. Perhaps you should give some serious consideration of doing just that, a book. You’re most welcome Mr. Cake.
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It is a great piece, I was going to do a bride stripped bare but it doesn’t show up well on a computer screen. Hmm, a book of short stories, poems or on art? Or my stalled novel?
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Well, any of those four would be lovely. At the moment I was thinking of art. You know one of those over sized coffee table books (please don’t cringe), beautiful plates of the artwork with your descriptions and interpretations below the image. You know, Cake style. What do you think?
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I like it, but isn’t the copyright and everything make the price prohibitive. That would be great though, I can picture it already.
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I have no idea, this is an area that I know nothing about. I can picture it too.
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Thank you Miss Cranes you really are too kind.
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You’re welcome Mr. Cake.
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I don’t see the bad in this. I see the light. And the intent.
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Thank you… I agree
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An excellent and quite intriguing (and certainly disturbing) piece … I loved the last paragraph and your analysis of the symbolism hidden here… I wonder if “The Illuminating Gas” could have something to do with the Holocaust, given the historical context here. Maybe I am taking the symbolism too far… However I have read this in an article http://www.toutfait.com/issues/issue_3/Articles/Hoy/etantdon_en.html
“It is thought provoking that the work was produced in the years after the Second World War, bearing the nuclear arms race in mind. Étant donnés can be seen as a ‘vanitas painting of art (and thereby civilization)’. Meaning that Duchamp must first and foremost criticize artificial (modern) art, i.e. the art that only has itself as its motif. The work praises Given, or nature, and negates the artificial, or man-made. It is a self-critical and extremely melancholy work. But that does not mean that it negates the onlooker’s experience of the work. On the contrary, the onlooker becomes the (co-) creator and interpreter of the work”. Again… The dreams of reasons as Goya would say? 😉
Sending best wishes, friend! 😀
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Thank you for this Aquileana, a wonderful piece of information.Man Ray was his best friend and was Jewish (though he doesn’t refer to the fact once in his excellent Autobiography, of course like most of the Dada/Surrealist he was a militant atheist), and when Duchamp first give up art entirely (for a while anyway) during his Buenos Aires period he did consult with Man Ray about becoming Jewish, but they both decided it was too much of a change and instead Duchamp become Rrose Selavy, his female alter ego for a period of two years. So apparently it is easier to change gender than religion. Of course you never know how seriously to take Duchamp and Man Ray with their elaborate jokes. Etant donnes as a vanitas in the nuclear age? Certainly worth a thought. Although atheists a lot of modernism is also anti-science, instead taking the third way of mysticism and occultism. Best wishes to you my thought provoking friend.
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Reblogged this on lampmagician.
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Thank you
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Thank You Back… so much 🙂
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Man Ray was his best booster and was Judaic (though he doesn’t touch to the fact once in his splendid autobiography, of course like most of the Dada/Surrealist he was a war-ridden atheist), and when Duchamp 1st break up artistry entirely (for a while anyway) during his Buenos Aires period of time he did consult with Man Ray about becoming Judaic, but they both decided it was too much of a change and instead Duchamp become Rrose Selavy, his distaff modify self for a period of time of two years. meaning that Duchamp must 1st and foremost criticize artistryificial (innovative) artistry, i.e. the artistry that only has itself as its motif.
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Thank you for your lengthy comments. I do admire Man Ray’s autobiography though I was kinda amazed that he didn’t once mention being Jewish, especially as it was very pertinent at the time of the Nazi invasion of France and his decision to leave. I always took from the Duchamp/Selavy that it was easier to change gender than become Jewish. Curiously enough Luis Bunuel also considered converting (for the shock value) and even went as asking his friend Pierre Unik father who was a Rabbi, but came to pretty much the same conclusion as Duchamp that it was almost impossible.
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The picture and the story, lost for speech once again, Cake… Leaving me wondering, so many curious facts and stories, the next being more inspiring than the other… May this stream never cease… Yes.
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Thank you you are too kind, I will try to keep the stream flowing.
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Looking forward to it.
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